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Tueday Trivia CVI: Question Three

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Tueday Trivia CVI: Question Three

Postby Isaac Cashman » Tue Jul 29, 2008 1:07 pm

Ken: As I said in my answer your answer is WRONG! WRONG!! WRONG!!!

The Draft Dodger Rag by Phil Ochs

Well I'm just a typical American Boy, fro a typical American town.
I beleive in G-d, and Senator Dodd, and keepi' old Castro down.
And when it came my time to serve, I knew "Better Dead thn Red!"
But when I got to my old Draft Board, buddy, this is what I said.

CHORUS

Sarge, I'm only eighteen, I got a ruptured spleen, and I allways carry a purse.
I got eyes like a bat, and my feet are flat and my Ashma gettin' worse.
Well think of my career, my sweetheart dear, my poor old ivalid aunt.
Besides I ain't no fool, I'm a going to school, and I'm working in a dee-fense plant.

As far as i am concerned

I am one of the few people who can state that I was both a Draft Dodger and a member of the U. S. Army in the "Vietnam Era".
I would guess that most of the boys in my class and the three on either side, in two different high schhools "dodged the draft.

The correct answer is Draft Evaders
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Re: Tueday Trivia CVI: Question Three

Postby econgator » Tue Jul 29, 2008 2:14 pm

Isaac Cashman wrote:Ken: As I said in my answer your answer is WRONG! WRONG!! WRONG!!!

The Draft Dodger Rag by Phil Ochs

Well I'm just a typical American Boy, fro a typical American town.
I beleive in G-d, and Senator Dodd, and keepi' old Castro down.
And when it came my time to serve, I knew "Better Dead thn Red!"
But when I got to my old Draft Board, buddy, this is what I said.

CHORUS

Sarge, I'm only eighteen, I got a ruptured spleen, and I allways carry a purse.
I got eyes like a bat, and my feet are flat and my Ashma gettin' worse.
Well think of my career, my sweetheart dear, my poor old ivalid aunt.
Besides I ain't no fool, I'm a going to school, and I'm working in a dee-fense plant.

As far as i am concerned

I am one of the few people who can state that I was both a Draft Dodger and a member of the U. S. Army in the "Vietnam Era".
I would guess that most of the boys in my class and the three on either side, in two different high schhools "dodged the draft.

The correct answer is Draft Evaders


Yes, the words in Carter's pardon were "draft evaders". And yes, a 'draft dodger' is not exactly the same thing as a 'draft evader'. However, I would say that 99.999999999999999999999999999999999999% of the people around now draw absolutely no distinction between a 'draft dodger' and a 'draft evader', nor for an informal quiz, should they.
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Postby Ken Jennings » Tue Jul 29, 2008 4:14 pm

We accepted any kind of "people who tried to avoid the draft" answer, of course.

To my knowledge, there is no legal or technical definition of either "draft dodger" or "draft evader." Where are you coming up with the idea that the terms differ substantially in meaning?
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Postby econgator » Tue Jul 29, 2008 4:33 pm

Ken Jennings wrote:We accepted any kind of "people who tried to avoid the draft" answer, of course.

To my knowledge, there is no legal or technical definition of either "draft dodger" or "draft evader." Where are you coming up with the idea that the terms differ substantially in meaning?


Ack. I compared the wrong words. A dodger would be an evader.

Consider taxes. Tax evasion (or dodging) is illegal. Tax avoidance would be using tax shelters, charitable contributions, etc to legally offset your tax burden.

So, a draft evader IS a draft dodger. A draft avoider would be someone like Cassius Clay.
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Postby Isaac Cashman » Wed Jul 30, 2008 9:39 am

I know the difference between an AFEES* and the AAFES**

I comprehend thar Halan Ellison is saying I WAS A DRAFTEE!!! when he has his entry in Who's Who state Army of the United States.

No, when speaking of the Vietnam Era, I will not accept the idea that Draft Dodger, Draft Evader, and Drsft Resister are thee different terms which can be casually applied to the same individual

Muhammed Ali (nee Cassius marcellus Clay) was a Draft Resister.
A person who went to Canada before he received notice to report at an AFEES was a Draft Evader.
and I would guess that most of the male members of the classes of 1961--1970 from Belmont Mass High School, Wellsley Mass High School, and Weston Mass High School were Draft Do0dgers who were totally unaffected by The Pardon.

* The "little building down on Whitehall Street" is a part of the Armed Forces Eamination and Evaluation
I am not certain if the last word is System or [u S][/u]ervice.

It clearly is not Center however I would say that
I believe that The AFEES for Boston Mass is currenly located in the Barnes Building.

** Inthe UK this very full initialism was what "Tommy Akkins" of World War II would have uesd for what "GI Joe" would have callerd "The PX".
During the Vietnam era The AAFES ran the snack bar and PX if you were stationed at Dover AFB or Fort Devens.
I do not know who ran the snack bar at P--cola NAS or Twenty Nine Palms (USMC)
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Postby Ken Jennings » Wed Jul 30, 2008 10:13 am

Isaac Cashman wrote:No, when speaking of the Vietnam Era, I will not accept the idea that Draft Dodger, Draft Evader, and Drsft Resister are thee different terms which can be casually applied to the same individual


Your evidence here that "dodge" and "evade" aren't synonyms is limited to "I REFUSE TO ACCEPT THIS!!!"?

The New York Times disagrees.

So does the CBC.

This after a 5-second Google search. You could have saved yourself a lot of typing.
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Postby themanwho » Wed Jul 30, 2008 1:56 pm

A dodger's not a draft resister,
Red beans and rice didn't miss 'er.

-M
Only if she's 5'3"
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Postby Isaac Cashman » Sat Aug 02, 2008 11:52 am

Ken: I can not deny that there are those who do not recognize a differnce between a draft dodger, a draft evader, and a draft resister.

I am not one of those people.

I will give one more example which might help any one who might want an explanation of why I use the three terms.

Timothy who was Born in the U. S. A. (hereafter BITU) in 1937
Earl, Floyd, George, Henry, and James, all of whom were BITU in 1947.
Tom BITU in 1957. AND
Steve BITU in 1967.

GIVEN: Timothy left high school in either 1955 or 1956 and did not go to college, he would have been examined and if found fit drafted in 1955, 1956, or 1957. The chance that Timothy would have been sent to 'Nam or the 'Nam area is very low.
Earl was drafted, volenteerd for the draft*, or enlisted for two years. He was indeed "in country".
James was clearly 4--F. Very few people would say "he dodged the draft".
George went to college. When the first draft lottery was held he "lucked out" by getting a number tha was greater than 249.
George was a draft dodger. He WAS NOT affected by the Catrer Pardon!!!
It does not matter how Floyd who was covered by the Carter pardon, "dodged the draft" the fact is that he was indeed covered by the Carter pardon AND
Henry refused to report for induction. He plaed guilty and went to prison. He was also covered by the Carter Pardon.
Henry was a draft resister, Floyd was a draft evader
Tom "dodged the darft" by being born in 1957. His high school has a memorial to William, Class of '69, KIA in 'Nam. William was a draftee.
Steve was a draft dodge for his father.

You might also want to check out "Lee Greenwood, who wrote G-d Bless the U. S. A. was a draft dodger".
IMO that rates a 2/3 yellow top and 1/3 red bottom, There may be those who would say 2/3 green top, 1/3 bottom.

* You are classified 1--A because your 1--S (High School) or 2--S (college) exemption expired.
You will recieve a letter telling you to report to a location near your local draft board office on date X.
On that date you will be taken by bus to the local AFEES. wher you will indeed be "inspected" with two parts of you indeed being touched :)
You will not be inducted on that date. You can volenteer to be drafted.

Whe I was in basic. I was RA XYZ-XY-WXYZ. thedraftees were US ZYZ-ZY-ZYXW. The National Guardsmen were NG YWX- YW- WYXZ, and the reservist were ER ZWY-WZ= ZWYX.
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Postby Ken Jennings » Sat Aug 02, 2008 12:22 pm

themanwho wrote:A dodger's not a draft resister,
Red beans and rice didn't miss 'er.


Sir Mix-a-Lot, Seattle's greatest rapper! Way to represent, Seattle.
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Postby econgator » Sat Aug 02, 2008 1:19 pm

Ken Jennings wrote:
themanwho wrote:A dodger's not a draft resister,
Red beans and rice didn't miss 'er.


Sir Mix-a-Lot, Seattle's greatest rapper! Way to represent, Seattle.


Was he Earl or James in the above? Timothy?
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