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religious question NOT debate

Postby StephanieJoyce9 » Fri Jan 12, 2007 9:20 pm

I've heard that Mormons marry not "'til death do us part" but beyond death. I think it is a neat idea. So how are the vows said?
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Postby clark » Tue Jan 16, 2007 7:03 am

That's funny, because a mormon wedding does have vows like all those weddings on TV with the whole "to have and to hold, in sickness and in health, for richer or for poorer, till death do you part" sort of thing.

Mormons believe that God doesn't want us to go through all the work of marrying, loving, and creating a family, just to have it all go to waste in the eternities. Instead, we believe that couples and families can be married for "time and all eternity". We call it being "sealed". The ceremony, usually called a "Temple Marriage" is performed in mormon temples by men who hold the priesthood and is available to all members in good standing. [As a side note, there are about 120 Mormon temples world wide, which only members can enter. (Before they're dedicated anyone can tour the building, it's neat.) Mormon churches are open to anyone.] In the sealing ceremony, promises are made between husband, wife and God. Husband and wife promise to love, honor and respect each other, as well as to keep Gods commandments. God promises blessings in this life, and that the family can remain together as a family unit for all eternity. Children born to the couple after this time are considered part of this promise (or "covenant") by birth and are said to be "Born in the Covenant". Previous children can be sealed to their parents in the ceremony. The US (and other countries) recognize the temple ceremony as a legal marriage. Some countries (Brazil for one, I don't know how many others) do not recognize the temple ceremony as a legal marriage, so couples are first legally married and then sealed in the temples.

I think that covers it.
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Postby joelion » Tue Jan 16, 2007 8:50 pm

Larry David is obviously not Mormon. (of course, he doesn't appear to be a good Jew either ;) )
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qHuNNslDowU
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Postby melissa » Tue Jan 16, 2007 9:38 pm

Rather than start a new thread, I'll just hijack this one (a little!). Those of y'all who are Mormons, do you actively work on your genealogy? Or is that something that just some LDS members do?

Genealogy is my favorite hobby and hopefully, my second career. I so appreciate all of the work that the members of the LDS have done, I can't thank them enough! It was a little funny, seeing that the marriage of two of my ancestors was sealed, however, as the husband was a deacon in the Presbyterian Church! It doesn't bother me, and it makes me wonder about people who would be bothered by it.

So, if you've worked on your genealogy, have you had much luck? How far are you back? What's your eventual goal?
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Postby clark » Wed Jan 17, 2007 5:36 am

Genealogy, I am doing it, my genealogy . . . .

At least, that's how the song I was taught in church goes. (They actually changed it now to "Family History".) Do I actively work on my genealogy? No. And that's probably the most common answer you'd get from a large, random collection of mormons. And then most of them would follow up with this caveat: "but my mom/dad/grandparent/sister/uncle/cousin LaVerl/aunt does". In my experience, there is often some relative out there that does genealogy which makes the rest of us feel much better about how we're not doing any. In my case, my dad was spent lots of time, and effort compiling not only thousands of names, but thousands of pages of stories. In my wife's family, she's got grandparents that have done extensive work. I guess now that I think about it, I have typed up several hundred pages of my mothers journals in the last 6 months or so, and to me, that counts as Family History, so I guess I have done something of value. My genealogy, as far as direct ancestors is back probably 6 generations (including myself) on every line. Many lines go back into the 1700s, and some go back as far as 1500s (or more?). It is interesting to know that I am a descendent of a couple who were both born in Massachusetts in 1632 (12 years after the pilgrims landed).
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Postby Momma Snider » Wed Jan 17, 2007 8:36 am

I just want to remind anyone who is thinking about genealogy that writing your own personal history and some kind of journal will be just as valuable and exciting for your descendants as your great-grandma's journal is to you. My mom died 10 years ago, and my dad just recently found a journal of hers that covered 1978-1982. She kept feeling guilty all the way through for not writing more, but the things she did write are very interesting and enlightening to me now. I'm sure my kids and grandkids will feel the same way about mine.

My dad keeps trying to do family history research, but won't do his own history, and I'd rather have that any day. I do really appreciate the avid researchers, though, LDS or not, so thanks, Melissa!
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Postby melissa » Wed Jan 17, 2007 9:57 am

Momma Snider wrote:I just want to remind anyone who is thinking about genealogy that writing your own personal history and some kind of journal will be just as valuable and exciting for your descendants as your great-grandma's journal is to you. My mom died 10 years ago, and my dad just recently found a journal of hers that covered 1978-1982. She kept feeling guilty all the way through for not writing more, but the things she did write are very interesting and enlightening to me now. I'm sure my kids and grandkids will feel the same way about mine.

My dad keeps trying to do family history research, but won't do his own history, and I'd rather have that any day. I do really appreciate the avid researchers, though, LDS or not, so thanks, Melissa!

You're welcome - and I agree - what you may think is so much drivel now may be nuggets of gold in future generations. I can remember holding the "day book" of the fort one of my ancestors defended during the American Revolution, and seeing where he signed for his pay. I actually had chills!

ETA: Clark, I got an email out of the blue this summer, from someone with one of my family's names. He had traced his/our lineage back to 1713 on a line that I had given up on! The funny part is, when my ggg-grandmother came here, her two brothers had supposedly become Mormons, so I just assumed this emailer was, also. Turned out that he was in England, living about a mile from where my ancestor was born! I learned a VERY valuable lesson about not giving up!!
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Postby Momma Snider » Wed Jan 17, 2007 11:09 am

I'm actually kind of stuck on a fairly simple thing right now. I have names and dates going back into the 1700s for most of my lines, but my great-grandparents (my mom's mom's parents) have me stumped, because none of the charts I can find list any siblings for either of them. I would think it fairly unusual in the 1880s to have only one child, and for two only children to get married seems even less likely. But she (Edith Louisa Simpkins) was born in 1883, and he (Elmer Jones) about the same time, so they don't show up on the 1880 census, and the states they lived in don't show anything in 1890, either. This is especially bad for me because I knew these people; I shared a birthday with Great-Grandpa Jones, and he lived until I was 13, and she lived until I was 19. I never thought to ask them about their families, and now all their kids are dead, and my mom is dead, so I don't have anyone to ask.

Any suggestions, Melissa? Or anyone?
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Postby melissa » Wed Jan 17, 2007 8:55 pm

Momma Snider wrote:I'm actually kind of stuck on a fairly simple thing right now. I have names and dates going back into the 1700s for most of my lines, but my great-grandparents (my mom's mom's parents) have me stumped, because none of the charts I can find list any siblings for either of them. I would think it fairly unusual in the 1880s to have only one child, and for two only children to get married seems even less likely. But she (Edith Louisa Simpkins) was born in 1883, and he (Elmer Jones) about the same time, so they don't show up on the 1880 census, and the states they lived in don't show anything in 1890, either. This is especially bad for me because I knew these people; I shared a birthday with Great-Grandpa Jones, and he lived until I was 13, and she lived until I was 19. I never thought to ask them about their families, and now all their kids are dead, and my mom is dead, so I don't have anyone to ask.

Any suggestions, Melissa? Or anyone?

Do you know where they lived at the time? If so, you can try church records, obituaries (for their parents, might give more genelogy!), cemetery records, newspaper items, court records (someone may have been made their guardian, or they could have been the executor). It is unusual to see two only children at that time - not knowing what state limits my responses. You'd think that there's a Family Bible somewhere, with possible other siblings who died young/at birth. Another idea is the Orphan Train, if you're fairly far west. I'm sure you've tried the LDS site (love, love, love it!!), but have you tried some of the lineage society ones, such as www.dar.org?

Feel free to get in touch, and I'll try to help. I'm best at VA/MD/PA & lineage societies, but I'll be getting more familiar with DE very soon! We tease my mother that she has THE largest genealogical library for a non-Mormon!

BTW, my program completely crashed, so I'm asking everyone which they use before I enter all this information again! I had Family Tree Maker, but I'm hearing nice things about Legends.
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Postby krf100 » Thu Jan 18, 2007 6:20 am

"BTW, my program completely crashed, so I'm asking everyone which they use before I enter all this information again! I had Family Tree Maker, but I'm hearing nice things about Legends."

I don't think you can beat the LDS program, especially for the price. (Last time I looked it was free.) It is very well implemented and I'm pretty sure it imports FTM (FTW) files. I'm trying very hard to remember the name of it and am coming up half-blank.

OK, I looked it up. It's "Personal Ancestral File" and it is available here: http://www.ldscatalog.com/webapp/wcs/st ... &cg4=&cg5=
I forgot what I was going to say...
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Postby melissa » Thu Jan 18, 2007 8:40 pm

Thanks, krf100!! Right now, I'm having to use an antiquated, slower than molasses in winter computer that doesn't have enough memory (read: I've been taking care of my mom!). When I'm back on my own, or can somehow reconfigure my laptop, I'll download it.

Some questions first:
-Does it allow space for photos?
-Do the birth dates of living people show up (this is a BIG problem in a family of belles who were taught that a lady need never give her age nor her weight!)?
-Does it go into cyberspace, for possible retrieval?
-Is it user-friendly?

I admit, I really lucked out on my lineages. There's a series of books on PA/VA Vital Statistics that pretty much traces two lineages back to 1700, then of course, I had that second cousin, thrice removed fill in another lineage. But we're stuck (my mom, my sister, and I) on ONE connection that would take us back to 1600 or before! We were raised being able to say, "My name is Melissa ___, and I am the daughter of CS and his only wife, DS. DS is the daughter of WK and his only wife, BC. WK is the son of WPK and his first wife, AM, etc." I think I learned all that prior to my ABCs!! Then you get all the military backgrounds - yikes!!
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Postby krf100 » Fri Jan 19, 2007 6:30 am

No prob, Melissa. Take into consideration that I haven't been spending any time on my own stuff for a while, I will try to answer your questions, I would strongly suggest you get the documentation, though, my answers might not be the best.

Some questions first:
-Does it allow space for photos? I'm pretty sure it does. 90% sure, let's say.

-Do the birth dates of living people show up (this is a BIG problem in a family of belles who were taught that a lady need never give her age nor her weight!)? Do you mean in printouts? I don't know. This is an issue that has never occurred to me.

-Does it go into cyberspace, for possible retrieval? Frankly, I don't think you want it to. Let me explain. There is a lot of very good information online. From the LDS stuff to Rootsweb, to personal web pages, you can get a lot of leads. These are leads only, though. There is much that is just flat out wrong. I consider such stuff a good place to start and then try to verify it myself. If you were to take these files and just merge them with all your own painstaking research, you all but render it all moot. It is easy to merge information, quite hard to expunge it.

-Is it user-friendly? It is. It also has some fields that are more LDS specific (don't let this scare you) that other programs don't have. If I were starting all over (and since I seem to have lost my main file over the last couple of years, I almost am) I would not hesitate to use it. Remember, the major programs can all import the files of each other.
I forgot what I was going to say...
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Postby melissa » Fri Jan 19, 2007 11:52 am

First of all, many thanks for the information!

krf100 wrote:No prob, Melissa. Take into consideration that I haven't been spending any time on my own stuff for a while, I will try to answer your questions, I would strongly suggest you get the documentation, though, my answers might not be the best.

Some questions first:
-Does it allow space for photos? I'm pretty sure it does. 90% sure, let's say.
That would be good. I set up a photobucket account for my family pictures, but it doesn't allow you to name a photo properly. My grandmother might be so and so's cousin, etc.

-Do the birth dates of living people show up (this is a BIG problem in a family of belles who were taught that a lady need never give her age nor her weight!)? Do you mean in printouts? I don't know. This is an issue that has never occurred to me.
This has been one of the hardest parts of our most recent genealogy! My family members seem to lie about nothing except their ages!

-Does it go into cyberspace, for possible retrieval? Frankly, I don't think you want it to. Let me explain. There is a lot of very good information online. From the LDS stuff to Rootsweb, to personal web pages, you can get a lot of leads. These are leads only, though. There is much that is just flat out wrong. I consider such stuff a good place to start and then try to verify it myself. If you were to take these files and just merge them with all your own painstaking research, you all but render it all moot. It is easy to merge information, quite hard to expunge it.

Omigosh, it's one of my pet peeves!! I keep telling people that I accept NO genealogy information unless sourced, which upsets people to no end. I was a VERY unpopular Genealogical Registrar for my DAR chapter because of this. There's a fruitcake down in Atlanta who swears he's related to us, but has zero documentation. Having a son named "DeWitt" doesn't mean you're related to Governor DeWitt!! :roll: Frankly, we refer to him as DimWitt!

-Is it user-friendly? It is. It also has some fields that are more LDS specific (don't let this scare you) that other programs don't have. If I were starting all over (and since I seem to have lost my main file over the last couple of years, I almost am) I would not hesitate to use it. Remember, the major programs can all import the files of each other.

It takes more than the LDS to scare me - there's a mission house about 3 blocks from me! If you're talking about the various sealed boxes to check off, the offline family group sheets I use has them. I color them in my own code! Thank heavens we each have each separate lineage in its own notebook, so entering the data will be easy, if not time consuming!

You'll enjoy this: I was once asked if I could change one thing in time, and I answered that the fire that destroyed most of the 1890 census wouldn't have happened!

Again, I can't tell you how much I appreciate your input!
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