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4 Popes died while having sex?

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4 Popes died while having sex?

Postby David Regal » Sun Dec 17, 2006 10:22 pm

One oft-repeated piece of trivia is that 4 Popes died while having sex. I have learnt from experience that frequency of repetition is not an infallible indication of truth. I haven't done a full search yet, but so far it looks like this is far from being a fact. I looked at the Wikipedia articles for the 4 alleged Popes. Two say nothing on the subject. The other two indicate they may have died because of sexual relations exposed, but don't indicate they were having sex when they died. My guess is that there will be no strong evidence that any Pope died while having sex.
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Postby rkd » Mon Dec 18, 2006 3:04 am

Who are the Alleged Popes?
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Re: 4 Popes died while having sex?

Postby shade » Mon Dec 18, 2006 6:30 am

David Regal wrote:One oft-repeated piece of trivia is that 4 Popes died while having sex. I have learnt from experience that frequency of repetition is not an infallible indication of truth. I haven't done a full search yet, but so far it looks like this is far from being a fact. I looked at the Wikipedia articles for the 4 alleged Popes. Two say nothing on the subject. The other two indicate they may have died because of sexual relations exposed, but don't indicate they were having sex when they died. My guess is that there will be no strong evidence that any Pope died while having sex.


:shock:

That's pretty disturbing.
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Postby cadams35 » Mon Dec 18, 2006 9:42 am

If it is true, the Church has probably hidden this fact away. Popes do not get autopsys, though I don't know what that has to do with this. Anyway, this fact is probably false.
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Postby Cannon » Mon Dec 18, 2006 11:18 am

It's always dangerous to talk politics and religion, but I'll give it a go.....

I've always been interested in the Catholic rules of celibacy, especially as they pertain to priests, bishops, and popes......After all....whose chair does the Pope sit in? And who was one of the desciples (if not the only) that we are reasonably certain was married?
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Postby econgator » Mon Dec 18, 2006 3:12 pm

rkd wrote:Who are the Alleged Popes?


The alleged Popes (more correctly, the 4 Popes alleged of this ... they really were Popes ;) ) are:

1] Pope Leo VII (936-9)

2] Pope John VII (955-64)

3] Pope John XIII (965-72)

4] Pope Paul II (1467-71)
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Postby econgator » Mon Dec 18, 2006 3:29 pm

Cannon wrote:It's always dangerous to talk politics and religion, but I'll give it a go.....

I've always been interested in the Catholic rules of celibacy, especially as they pertain to priests, bishops, and popes......After all....whose chair does the Pope sit in? And who was one of the desciples (if not the only) that we are reasonably certain was married?


Being a Roman Catholic, I've always wondered about this, too. The Pope sits in the Chair of Peter. Not only was Peter married, but he was a father as well. My understanding of it is that the celibacy is meant to mirror the life Christ lead while alive. On the other hand, Matrimony is one of the sacraments. The sacraments were meant to allow the divine spirit and favor to show upon the conferees and to advance the holiness of the church.

I know that both Popes Benedict XVI and John Paul II have stated that it is highly unlikely that this law would be changed any time soon. Just for the record, the celibacy requirement of priests is a 'discipline' (law), not a 'doctrine', of the Church. Disciplines can be changed by Papal Edict; doctrine cannot be changed.
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Postby ranjolie » Mon Dec 18, 2006 5:43 pm

I'm sorry to break some Catholics hearts but in the past the popes where usually only rich people or people who where chosen by very rich and influential people, there is Clement VII famous because he refused to grant a divorce to Henry VIII and that started the Protestant Church, Clement was the cousin of another Pope, Pope Leo X, who by the way was also a member of one of the most powerful families of Italy, the Medici's. I read a book about Catherine d' Medici ( She should have a movie made about her ) where they said the Popes had illegitimate children and they were not born because of the Holy Spirit intervention. (,,,,,,,,,,,,, Here is a bunch of commas that I don't know where to place them. )
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Re: 4 Popes died while having sex?

Postby TheConfessor » Tue Dec 19, 2006 1:05 am

Wow, I never learned this in my Catholic school classes. Was there an explosion in the Vatican while the four Popes were having an orgy with each other? I've heard the rumors about Nelson Rockefeller, but the four Popes thing is news to me!
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Postby ranjolie » Tue Dec 19, 2006 9:23 am

Keeping with the Popes theme, I think that Dan Brown in his book Angels and Demons (I like it maybe more than The DaVinci Code), he says that the Popes had a secret tunnel that took them to a tower where they kept their mistresses, if memory serves me right, that is the book and that what is stated in the book, of course Dan Brown is like the King of Fiction. In another note I believe John Paul II was like the purest man that has ever lived, he made a lot of people believe again in Catholicism and a lot of people was moved in his presence. (,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,)
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Postby cinemaniax7 » Tue Dec 19, 2006 3:17 pm

ranjolie wrote:...there is Clement VII famous because he refused to grant a divorce to Henry VIII and that started the Protestant Church...


The Henry VIII incident led to the formation of the Anglican Church (a.k.a. the Church of England), but I don't think it's accurate to say that it started the Protestant church; Martin Luther and his 95 Theses get the credit for that one.
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Postby Cannon » Tue Dec 19, 2006 7:37 pm

cinemaniax7 wrote:
ranjolie wrote:...there is Clement VII famous because he refused to grant a divorce to Henry VIII and that started the Protestant Church...


The Henry VIII incident led to the formation of the Anglican Church (a.k.a. the Church of England), but I don't think it's accurate to say that it sTtarted the Protestant church; Martin Luther and his 95 Theses get the credit for that one.


This is inaccurate as well... the Church of England (Anglican meaning of England) was formed, more or less, in the 6th Century, long before Martin Luther and Henry VIII. Henry VIII's much publicized anger of the Pope's refusal to grant a divorce is commonly referred to as the breaking point between Rome and the Church o England, but this too is incorrect. Henry VIII spent most of his reign challenging Rome right and left. Martin Luther had more to do with the evolution of the Protestant movement than Henry teh VIII (something cinemaniax is absolutely correct about).
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Postby econgator » Tue Dec 19, 2006 8:35 pm

If I remember my history, the failure to annul his marriage caused Henry to essentially sever all ties between the Anglican Church and Rome. He then passed the Supremacy Act which made him head of the Anglican Church and he could annul his own marriage, thank you very much. Mary I tried to restore those ties, but after her untimely death, Elizabeth I pretty much finished what her father had started.
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Re: 4 Popes died while having sex?

Postby David Regal » Wed Dec 20, 2006 12:39 am

TheConfessor wrote:Wow, I never learned this in my Catholic school classes. Was there an explosion in the Vatican while the four Popes were having an orgy with each other? I've heard the rumors about Nelson Rockefeller, but the four Popes thing is news to me!


Lol. You're probably joking, but in case you aren't, the alleged fact is not meant to indicate those Popes were having sex with each other!
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Postby ranjolie » Fri Dec 22, 2006 11:53 am

Pope Clement VII refused to grant King Henry VIII of England a divorce from his wife, Catherine of Aragon; This, in turn, allowed the English Reformation to develop. Sorry for the information, barely got my GED. :oops:
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Postby Granny O'Doul » Fri Dec 22, 2006 2:18 pm

I'm not surprised to see that two of those four reigned during the Pornocracy.
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Postby melissa » Sat Dec 23, 2006 9:36 pm

One of the dental hygienists at my dentist's office often brags about being a descendant of Pope Innocenti the some number. I would hardly think that's something to brag about, but if it makes her happy...

Just out of curiosity, why is there so many papal questions on Jeopardy! as compared to, say, Methodism or the LDS? That always intrigued me.
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Postby IndySOG03 » Tue Jan 02, 2007 6:08 am

Probably because there have been a lot more Popes that are huge public figured in history than, say, Methodist Popes would be. Popes are people that can change the world on a grand scale (like, say, indirectly force kings to create their own religions). While Methodists often change the world in small ways (soup kitchens, visiting shut-ins, etc.), there aren't that many that can be noted in a trivia-type format.
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Postby ArtVark » Tue Jan 02, 2007 10:29 pm

melissa wrote:Just out of curiosity, why is there so many papal questions on Jeopardy! as compared to, say, Methodism or the LDS? That always intrigued me.


They've probably had more questions about antipopes on Jeopardy than they've had on Methodism.

One reason is that for most of European history for the past 1600 years, popes have always been among the most powerful political influences. Also the Catholic Church kept better records on popes than many of the other rulers, so there is more information available about them.
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Postby Ken Jennings » Tue Jan 02, 2007 10:59 pm

melissa wrote:Just out of curiosity, why is there so many papal questions on Jeopardy! as compared to, say, Methodism or the LDS? That always intrigued me.


When I was a kid, I remember thinking that Mormonism was over-represented on Jeopardy, if anything. (Though not as much as popes, true.) For a while it seemed like every religion category had to have an obligatory LDS question. I don't know if there was a Mormon guy on staff, or if there's just more colorful esoterica about Mormons than there is about Methodists, or what.
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Re: 4 Popes died while having sex?

Postby gvonk » Wed Jan 03, 2007 4:12 am

David Regal wrote:Lol. You're probably joking, but in case you aren't, the alleged fact is not meant to indicate those Popes were having sex with each other!


Not to drag the level of discourse down, but wouldn't it be technically impossible for two Popes to, er, do anything together? Have any two people ever concurrently been legitimate Popes?
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Re: 4 Popes died while having sex?

Postby cadams35 » Wed Jan 03, 2007 5:08 am

gvonk wrote:
David Regal wrote:Lol. You're probably joking, but in case you aren't, the alleged fact is not meant to indicate those Popes were having sex with each other!


Not to drag the level of discourse down, but wouldn't it be technically impossible for two Popes to, er, do anything together? Have any two people ever concurrently been legitimate Popes?


True...I noticed that but, shockingly, for once, I didn't feel the need to point it out.

Kind of off topic...does anyone else like Angels & Demons?
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Re: 4 Popes died while having sex?

Postby econgator » Wed Jan 03, 2007 4:06 pm

gvonk wrote:
David Regal wrote:Lol. You're probably joking, but in case you aren't, the alleged fact is not meant to indicate those Popes were having sex with each other!


Not to drag the level of discourse down, but wouldn't it be technically impossible for two Popes to, er, do anything together? Have any two people ever concurrently been legitimate Popes?


Depends on who you talk to or where you look. There were concurrent Popes and Antipopes. Some of the Antipopes may have had better claims to the Papacy than those who held the office.
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Postby ranjolie » Thu Jan 04, 2007 9:04 am

cadam wrote:Kind of off topic...does anyone else like Angels & Demons?

I absolutely loved Angels and Demons, I read it and liked it better than The DaVinci Code, try to read the illustrated version it shows all the work of art Brown is referring to, you actually believe he is writing about real stuff.
And I heard Hollywood is doing the movie. I hope they keep Tom Hanks. Victoria can be Monica Belucci.
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